淨空法師訪問昆士蘭約翰大主教的談話　　2002/6/13　　澳洲昆士蘭

宗教教育很重要，在過去半個世紀，我們在全世界每一個國家地區，都能看到全球性的各種動亂災難，頻率不斷的在上升。災難一次比一次嚴重，人民明顯的感到危機就在眼前。能挽救此一大災難的，除了宗教教育之外，實在找不到第二種方法。所以宗教教育是救世的教育，是神聖的教育。

人若不能依靠神聖的教誨，要任意隨著自己的意願見解行動，所犯的過錯就會非常嚴重！今天世間各種教育只重視科學技術、經濟利益，而把倫理道德、愛的教育疏忽了，所以才造成整個社會的動亂與災難。科學技術如果沒有神聖的引導，它對社會必定是有害的，最後將會造成世界的毀滅。所以今天世界上許許多多的志士仁人，都想挽救世界劫運，改善社會風氣、改善人心，他們想得很多，但是沒有想到宗教教育。

最近中東的衝突，實際上，伊斯蘭教也同樣的疏忽了宗教教育，而是被一些有心人利用了。古蘭經上固然是講聖戰，聖戰是自衛的而不是侵略的，絕對不是以暴力來對付社會大眾的，而是保衛自己的安全。像我們中國過去八年抗戰，就是聖戰，絕非侵略別人。伊斯蘭的意思就是和平，所以他怎麼會用暴力武力對待別人呢？大家若能明瞭其教義，就能和平共存共榮，當然也能夠互助合作。

我們在宗教裡學習很多年，我們肯定宇宙之間只有一位真神，祂有圓滿的智慧、有圓滿的能力、有圓滿的相好。所以祂對各各不同的地區、不同的文化、不同的族群，他自然會現不同的相，會以不同的方法教化那個地區的眾生。雖然說形式的相跟教育方式不同，若仔細去研究觀察，他的宗旨和目標一定是相同的。

所以我們能夠體會到整個大宇宙，這不止是一個地區；大宇宙所有的一切眾生，都是神聖的子民。神希望所有宇宙的眾生都能接受神聖的教育。遵循、隨順神聖的意旨，一定要隨順神聖的教化，不能隨順自己的妄想分別執著，自己的意思是錯誤的。神聖跟我們一般人不同的地方，就是祂起心動念皆是為一切眾生的福祉著想，而眾生起心動念無不是為自己的利益著想。

因此各個宗教的神職人員，我們必須要向神聖來學習，拓開心量，起心動念皆為一切眾生，不能夠為自己，為自己就是凡夫，為一切眾生，才是真正神的信徒、神的學生、神的使者。

我們不再分別種族，不再分別宗教，也不再分別國家的界線，我們以真誠清淨平等的愛心幫助一切大眾。過去毛澤東講的《全心全力為人民服務》，他說的話沒錯，這話是神說的話，應該說《全心全力為人民福祉服務》才正確，我們今天要認真的做到。

這兩年來，淨空承蒙澳洲的移民部長，也是多元文化部長，他很希望我到澳洲來居住，希望我能夠在多元文化這個範圍裡面多做一點工作，多做一點好事。我也非常感激他，所以我來到澳洲。

澳洲有多元文化工作發展的環境，可以說在整個世界上是第一個由政府多元文化部有組織的推動，這在全世界好像只有一個，連新加坡都沒有，而且由大學來主導，這是稀有難逢的因緣。以往我在新加坡住了四年，這四年當中，雖然我們主動訪問每一個宗教（新加坡有九個宗教），我們確實全心全力幫助各個宗教的教育事業、慈善事業，做得有一些成績，政府也非常歡迎、非常讚嘆，但是政府並沒有一個組織機構來推動，所以做得很辛苦。

以後來到澳洲，我認識了尤里先生（現任昆士蘭多元文化局長），參加他的多元文化論壇。這也是新加坡所沒有的。此地由政府學校來主導推展，一定會做到非常好的成績，我們相信澳洲人有福，澳洲人純樸善良，神也會特別照顧這個地區，以及此地居民。

我在此地所接觸的政府官員、宗教領袖、學者、教育界的領導，使我感覺到，這些學者教授、官員、宗教家好像都是佛菩薩，都是上帝的使者，非常非常稀有難得，我們有緣能夠來到澳洲追隨，參與多元文化救世的工作，感到非常榮幸。我跟學校提到現在這個工作要特別加強去做，要快速去做，不能夠遲疑，因為我們眼看災難就在眼前，我們最擔心的是第三次世界核武戰爭。

宗教教育是神聖的教育，他最高的指導原理原則就是「真誠的愛心，清淨的愛心，平等的愛心」。能夠把這種愛心向全宇宙擴展，這是宇宙的大光明，這是上帝的光澤，佛法中講這是自性的智慧、慈悲的光芒，希望這個光芒能夠照耀宇宙，能夠加持宇宙消融一切眾生的苦難。

上帝神聖的愛心是真誠的，是純淨的，是不附帶任何條件的；任何宗教的領導人、傳教師、他們是神聖示現的代表，一定要把上帝的愛心發揚光大，所以宗教教學，教化不止是一個地區、一個城市，而是要教化全世界、全宇宙的眾生。

我希望將來學校能擁有一所專門作宗教教學的衛星電視台。這個電視台二十四小時傳播的是真正神聖的福音、神聖的教誨、神聖的旨意。二十四小時不中斷，我們組織一個多元文化宗教教學組負責策劃執行，邀請各個宗教領袖不斷的來教導，有這樣一個工具，每個宗教每日有一小時的播出，二十四小時不中斷，常年永恆的播出，讓一切眾生沐浴在聖教中。今天電視節目非常之多，我深信人皆有良知，他們會比較，他們會選擇，慢慢地收看這個節目的人多了，人心就改善了；人心回善，社會風氣就改變了。所以一定要從衛星電視、網際網路上下工夫。

此外，我們必須和各個能夠對社會有很大影響力的各國政治家，宗教家，學術界的教授學者，不斷的聯繫，不斷的訪問，不斷的交流，他們也是神聖的使者，大家應當攜手合作來從事拯救世界的工作。

至於交流訪問，我在2000年曾經協助新加坡九個宗教，每個宗教有兩位代表，都是宗教領袖，我們一同前往中國訪問，作了兩個星期的宗教交流，效果非常好。這是一個新的嘗試，希望從這個經驗當中，將來我們以澳洲宗教團為主體，訪問亞洲，訪問南北美洲，訪問歐洲；一年至少有一次到兩次的訪問。中國人常說見面三分情，我們有必要建立宗教感情，有共同祈求世界和平安定的願望。希望全世界宗教信徒們，互相尊重、互相敬愛、互相合作、平等對待、和睦相處、同心同力來挽救這個世界，阻止核武戰爭。

在這個社會上好心的人士還是很多，真正想做一點好事，而找不到地方做的，大有人在；這一樁好事是現在在全世界的第一樁好事，第一樁大事，我們能熱心努力去做，支持的人會很多；支持我們的神聖會更多。

在過去五年中，我對整個世界社會前途的看法，是很悲觀，是非常失望的；來到澳洲，看到澳洲這邊的宗教領袖，看到學術界人士，政府官員，我從這個地方，看到一線曙光，這個世間還是有救的，救星都在澳洲。希望大主教能帶頭領導，我們將盡心盡力追隨。感激大主教盛情接待，願神佑大主教。謝謝！

 (淨空法師鑑定　悟平記)

Conversation with Archbishop John Bathersby

 Catholic Archbishop of Brisbane

Given by Venerable Master Chin Kung

13 June 2002

Religious education is very important for everyone. If we view the global situations for the past 50 years, many countries have been disrupted by increasing conflicts and disasters. It has become worse each time. People are afraid of these critical situations and have been trying to find a solution. Yet, to save our world from grave disasters, there is no better solution than religious education, for it is the teachings of God and Sacred Saints to save our world.

If we, human beings, cannot abide by the teachings of Sages, yet attach to our own viewpoints and opinions, we will create grave mistakes. Nowadays, education focuses only on sciences, technologies, and financial benefits but not on morality, ethics or love. This disregard has resulted in grave disturbance and catastrophe to our societies. If science and technology are not guided by the teachings of God and the Holy Sages, then these advancements will only become harmful to living beings and eventually destroy the whole world. Therefore, people start to search for solutions to save the world, to change bad influence of our societies and to purify people’s mind and heart. They think of many ways possible, but it never occurs to them that religious education is the solution.

The conflicts in the Middle East were brought on by the people’s neglect of Islamic teachings and exploitation by those with selfish purposes. The sacred book of Koran mentions the holy war. Holy war refers to one’s shield, an act of self-defense. Holy war is not an act of invasion. It is absolutely not to attack others by using violence. China’s 8-year Resistant War to the Japanese invasion is a form of holy war and not an invasion of others.

The name Islam means peace and harmony. How can Muslims attack others with military force or violence? If everyone understands the true meanings of the teachings in one’s religion, people can work and live together in harmony.

With my long years of understanding in Buddhism and other religions, I believe there is only one true God, who possesses perfect wisdom, perfect ability and perfect appearances. This Holy Being will take on various identities with unlimited means to help people of different regions, cultures and races. His forms and ways of education may be different but they all lead to one goal.

From this, we are able to comprehend that all living beings throughout the whole universe, not just one region, are children of God. God wishes that every living being in the universe can embrace and uphold the teachings of Holy Sages. We should never follow our own views, as they always lead to mistakes. The difference between sages and us is that their concerns are always for the benefits of others. For humans, we only care for our own.

For every religious leader, teacher and missionary, we must learn from God to broaden our mind and heart. We should be concerned only with the welfare of others and discard our own. If our intentions are selfish, then we will always be ordinary beings. On the other hand, if our intentions are to benefit others, we are true followers, students, and messengers of God.

We must harbour the sincere, pure and nondiscriminatory loving kindness to help all beings regardless of race, religion and nationality. In the lecture of Chairman Mao of China, he mentioned, “we should serve people wholeheartedly and spare no effort.” These are the words from God. “For the well beings of all people, we should serve everyone wholeheartedly and spare no effort.” Today, we need to implement God’s words sincerely.    

I am very much indebted to the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs, Honorary Philip Ruddock who wished that I would remain in Australia. He hopes I could contribute more assistance and endeavors in the works of Multiculturalism. I am very grateful to his invitation, thus I am now here in Australia.

Australia provides a very good environment for multicultural development. It is the first country to pioneer a multicultural department by the government. The Singapore government has yet to organize such a department. The universities play the leading role in organizing multicultural activities in Australia, and this is a very wonderful occasion. With my four years in Singapore I took the initiative to visit various local religions and to assist in their charity works and educational projects. Although we were very successful and were applauded by the Singapore government, the government had yet wished to set up an organization to enforce the peace of multi-racial and multi-religion. Thus, there were many hardships behind our success.

After coming to Australia, I attended the Multi Faith Forum and I met with Mr. Uri Themal OAM, Executive Director of Multicultural Affairs Queensland. This forum is organized by Griffith University. Here in Australia, government and universities take the lead in multicultural harmony. And this is what we cannot see in Singapore. I imagine that multiculturalism will take flight in Australia and I believe Australians are very fortunate, pure and kind people. God will take special care of this land and her inhabitants.

While in Australia, I have had a chance to meet with government authorities, religious leaders, professors and chancellors of universities. All of them are enlightened beings, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, Messengers of God and are indeed very rare and precious. I am very honoured to be here in Australia to have the opportunity to join in this wonderful work to save the world. I have spoken with the professors and lecturers of the Peace and Conflict Resolution Institute in the University of Queensland that this work is very urgent, and has to be carried out without delay because there are many disasters imminent and that we are all worried about a Third World War, a Nuclear Warfare.

The most important principle of religious education, the teachings of God and Holy Sages is to harbour a Sincere, Pure and Non-discriminatory Love. If we could spread this Love to all beings throughout the whole universe, this shall be the brightest light of the universe, and the light of God. In Buddhism, it is the wisdom of our True Nature and the light of compassion. We hope that this light could shine on the whole universe and bring guidance to resolve the sufferings of all beings.

The love of God and Holy Beings is sincere, pure and unconditional. Every religious leader, clergyman and clergywoman is a representative of God, and must spread and foster God’s love. Religious education shall be propagated not only to people in one city, or one region, but also to people in the whole world and universe.

I wish that in the future local universities would have a specialized channel on satellite TV station to broadcast every religious teaching. This channel can transmit the gospel of God, teachings of the Sages without interruption on a twenty-four hour basis. For this channel, we could organize a multi-faith teachings committee to carry out the plans. This committee will invite religious leaders from each religion to teach. Once we have these facilities, each religion could provide an hour program daily. And these programs will continue for twenty-four hours every day and throughout the year to let everyone constantly immerse under the teachings of God and the Sages. Even though there are many program-channels today, I believe that people have a conscience, they will compare among the different channels. They will make a wise choice. Once the number of people watching this channel increases, their hearts will change towards goodness and then social morality will improve. This is why we must work on the project of a satellite TV station and Internet.

Moreover, we need to continue to keep in touch, have exchange- and dialogue-sessions with prominent statesmen or stateswomen and religious leaders as well as eminent professors and scholars in academic circles who are Messengers of God and have a great impact on society. All should work together to save the world.

Talking about communication and exchange-visit, in the year 2000, I have helped to assist a delegation consisting of leaders of nine religions in Singapore, two representatives from each religion, went on a two-week visit to China’s religious organisations. This trip was very successful.  It is a new beginning. I hope, through this experience, we could organize a delegation with Australian religious leaders as the host delegates to visit countries in Asia, North and South America and Europe. At least, we will organise one or two trips a year. There is a Chinese saying that if people meet, closer ties will develop between them. It is necessary for all religions to foster closer ties, with a common goal, to pray for world peace. Hopefully, global religious followers will interact with each other in mutual respect and loving kindness, non-discrimination, harmony and peace, and work together with one-mind to save this world from nuclear warfare.

There are many kind-hearted people in our world, wanting to do something good, but they do not know how. This good deed is the best one and the most important thing to do in the world; we must put in our best efforts to carry out this task. There will be many people who are willing to support this project as well as many more Holy Beings.

During the past five years, I have been very pessimistic and disappointed with the prospect of our world. After coming to Australia and seeing religious leaders, scholars in academic circles and people in the government give me a ray of hope that there is hope for this world -- the saviours are in Australia. I hope Your Most Reverend will take the lead and we shall do our best to follow in this work. I appreciate the hospitality of Your Most Reverend.  May God bless you!  Thank you.

Recorded by Wu Ping

Translated by Wu Ping, Wu Hsing, and Wu Chin